Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
But a new coalition of MPs seems to say the two are one and the same.
By Murray Dobbin,
19 Nov 2009,
'Anti-Zionism is being used as a cover for anti-Semitism': CPCCA
Ever since the Israeli invasion of the Gaza strip last December, the global debate surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has intensified with both sides upping the ante, and the stakes of the framing battle increasing almost daily. One of the most recent -- but almost totally unreported -- developments in Canada is something called the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition to Combat Antisemitism (CPCCA). It is not an official parliamentary body but is a multi-party, voluntary association of 13 MPs. It is currently holding an inquiry into antisemitism because, it says, "The extent and severity of antisemitism is widely regarded as at its worst level since the end of the Second World War."
In fact, antisemitic attitudes in the U.S. are at an all-time low according to Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, whose mandate is to monitor and expose antisemitism. Statistics Canada reports the number of hate crimes against Jews has been dropping since 2001-2002.
But of course, it all depends on how you define antisemitism. Jewish organizations from the Canadian Jewish Congress and Hillel to B'nai Brith have all been vigorously redefining this scourge to capture many more alleged perpetrators in its net of enemies. One of their targets is the handful of Canadian universities where pro-Palestinian activity has been intense.
But it goes far beyond just the universities. For the first time in decades, the unquestioned dominance of Israel's public relations machine and lobbying juggernaut is being seriously challenged. The characterization of Israel as an apartheid state is gaining much more credibility than Israel's supporters had ever anticipated. So is the international Boycott, Divest and Sanctions (BDS) campaign. These are very serious threats to Israel's credibility as "the only democratic state in the Middle East" -- one of its most powerful claims.
'Rebranding' after Gaza
Last December's brutal assault on Gaza by the Israeli army and air force -- and the deliberate targeting of civilians (as publicly confessed by the soldiers who did it) -- was a tipping point for many who had preferred to sit on the fence or decline to form a hard opinion. Those hard opinions are forming everywhere and the current government of Israel, led by the hard-line Benjamin Netanyahu, is only making things worse.
There have been two responses. The newest is what the Israeli government has referred to as "re-branding," and in part it involves "soft" stories about Israel -- like one I saw on the CBC shot from a beach in Israel where bathers had claimed they saw a mermaid. The most prominent example was the celebration of Tel Aviv's centennial by the Toronto Film Festival. Scores of prominent Jews (and thousands of others) protested.
The other response is conventional. It is the simple rule of all pro-Israeli organizations and activists: either declare outright or hint at the possibility that any individual criticizing Israel is antisemitic. Critics of Israel who are Jewish -- whose numbers are increasing dramatically -- are branded as "Jew-hating" Jews. The strategy has been extremely effective at intimidating potential critics into silence.
Who's on the CPCCA?
Which gets us back to the CPCCA. The 13-member group is co-chaired by Liberals Scott Reid and Mario Silva and also boasts Winnipeg NDP MPs Pat Martin and Judy Wasylycia-Leis and Conservatives Jason Kenney and Peter Kent. Bob Rae and Ken Dryden are members and the Bloc is also represented. But it is effectively run by Kenney and the other ex-officio member, Liberal Irwin Cotler. Both Kenney and Cotler were in London, U.K. last February for the first meeting of European parliamentarians that lead to the "London Declaration" of which the CPCCA is the follow-up initiative.
The core message of the coalition is that criticism of Israel itself is now a new form of antisemitism. The group's web site asks, "What is the 'new antisemitism'?" and answers :
"Antisemitism is an age-old phenomenon, yet it is always re-invented and manifested in different ways. For example, while accusations of blood libel are still being made against the Jewish people, instead they are being directed against the State of Israel, such that anti-Zionism is being used as a cover for antisemitism."
There is no evidence or links to any evidence to support the claim.
In its FAQ section the coalition answers the question of whether or not its inquiry is "really about limiting legitimate criticism of the State of Israel?" No, says the web site: "dissent and opposition to individual actions of the Israeli government are both permitted and encouraged in and outside of Israel."
But not, apparently, inside the inquiry. The coalition formally invited written submissions and stated that "Based on these submissions, the committee will invite witnesses to testify at a series of public hearings." There was virtually no general publicity about the inquiry, but when word did get out, numerous submissions were made arguing against the Coalition's concept of a "new anti-Semitism." Yet not a single organization or individual known for criticism of Israel has been scheduled to make a presentation to the inquiry (it is holding eight meetings on Parliament Hill from Nov. 2 to Dec. 8 ).
It seems the fix is in: the conclusion of the inquiry has been pre-ordained. If you are a critic of Israel you are already, by definition, antisemitic and obviously not welcome.
Speech laws in the works?
The CPCCA's inquiry begs a lot of questions, not the least of which is where do they get their funding? The coalition says it does not receive any funding from the government, NGOs or Jewish community organizations. Their budget is considerable, judging by the fact that eight of the 20-odd witnesses so far scheduled to appear at the inquiry are being flown in from the U.K., the U.S., Germany and Israel. While the web site promises to reveal funding sources, none are so far listed.
More to the point, just what do the coalition's members hope will result from their proceedings? The CPCCA will make a report to the government and "anticipates that the Government will respond to it by the spring of 2010." That seems pretty specific, especially for a government that is not known for responding readily to outside groups. Has the government already agreed to respond to the report? Will its recommendations find their way into the criminal code?
There is good reason to fear such an eventuality. Jason Kenney -- the powerful Conservative ex-officio member of the coalition -- is the point man for Stephen Harper on issues involving Israel and as minister of immigration he personally blocked British MP George Galloway from speaking in Canada. He also eliminated the half million dollars in funding the Canadian Arab Federation used for settlement programs for new immigrants (and not just Muslims). He refused to provide any evidence justifying the move. Kenney told a Toronto audience to "...be wary of the rise of a new form of antisemitism cloaked in debates about Israel's actions in the Middle East."
It remains to be seen what the recommendations of the coalition will be, but its conclusions regarding a sweeping redefinition of antisemitism have already been drawn and incorporated into their inquiry process -- mortally damaging its credibility. The likelihood that the Harper government is working in lock-step with the coalition is high and the CPCCA's purpose may well be to prepare the ground for criminalizing criticism of Israel.
The remaining question is whether Jack Layton, Michael Ignatieff and Giles Duceppe will allow such an abomination to be reflected in any new legislation.
Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
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Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Antisemitism is just a word used to deflect criticism and accountability by a certain group of people.
Technically, palestinians are semites by definition, so technically zionists are also antisemites when it comes down to it.
Technically, palestinians are semites by definition, so technically zionists are also antisemites when it comes down to it.
DEI = Didn’t Earn It
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Still I think we should be cautious. Lets stick to strident angry alarmist and frequent anti-americanism and leave the poor israelis alone. We wouldn't want to be antisemetic.
- The Old Fogducker
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Stinson .... now that made me smile and chuckle.
Well said.
I just got back from spending time with one of my US cousins that moved to the States when she was about 17. One of the first questions she asked me after I said I could easily be a stand-in guest host for a vacationing Sean Hannity or Mark Levin, was "So is there still a group in Canada that hate Americans?"
I said, "unfortunately, yes .. a minority of highly vocal sanctimonious jerks that mistakenly think Canadians are morally superior."
We now return this channel to regular America bashing. Heaven forbid we should appear to be antisemitic.
That just wouldn't be right .... LOL.
The Old Fogducker
Well said.
I just got back from spending time with one of my US cousins that moved to the States when she was about 17. One of the first questions she asked me after I said I could easily be a stand-in guest host for a vacationing Sean Hannity or Mark Levin, was "So is there still a group in Canada that hate Americans?"
I said, "unfortunately, yes .. a minority of highly vocal sanctimonious jerks that mistakenly think Canadians are morally superior."
We now return this channel to regular America bashing. Heaven forbid we should appear to be antisemitic.
That just wouldn't be right .... LOL.
The Old Fogducker
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Thats right FogDuck.. America is Utopia and anyone who says otherwise can blow it out their commie ass!!!
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
He. I wonder when people will finally realise that 1% of the world's population has taken away their FREEDOM to even question the holocaust story!!
Why aren;t school kids taught about the Khmer Rouge holocaust? Or about the horrors of nukes being used on civillans? Or Kissenger 's (Peace Prize winner?) holocaust secret bombing genocide on Cambodia and Laos?
Who gains from this? Who gains from controlling this story so tightly?
Poor Israel the victim: supplied with US warplanes, tax dollars, WMD, chemical and phosphourous weapons, torture training, and a standing army of extremists who live to kill arabs.
Gaza the large concentation camp. Israel prevents medical care, building supplies, and more from reaching civillans. NO OTHER COUNTRY does this. WMD is dropped onto them.
But why do we not have the freedom to protest against this death cult?
Do you still believe we fight for "freedom"?
Why aren;t school kids taught about the Khmer Rouge holocaust? Or about the horrors of nukes being used on civillans? Or Kissenger 's (Peace Prize winner?) holocaust secret bombing genocide on Cambodia and Laos?
Who gains from this? Who gains from controlling this story so tightly?
Poor Israel the victim: supplied with US warplanes, tax dollars, WMD, chemical and phosphourous weapons, torture training, and a standing army of extremists who live to kill arabs.
Gaza the large concentation camp. Israel prevents medical care, building supplies, and more from reaching civillans. NO OTHER COUNTRY does this. WMD is dropped onto them.
But why do we not have the freedom to protest against this death cult?
Do you still believe we fight for "freedom"?
That'll buff right out 



Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Do you still think some person in a 3rd world country can swim over here, disarm the western military complex, and take away your freedoms ?
------------
Legalizing Treason
Are Hate Crime Laws A Threat To Liberty?
By Jeff Gates
November 22, 2009 "OMP" -- In a representative system of government, the greatest threat to liberty is manipulation of the facts required for informed citizen participation. Anyone who cherishes freedom should be alarmed at the ongoing success of such manipulation and outraged that its common source traces to a purported ally.
Winning wars in the Information Age largely depends on winning the battle for public opinion. Thus the opinion-shaping role of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) when it attacked a high profile California professor for his criticism of Israeli policy in Palestine.
That ADL intimidation campaign successfully chilled debate on campuses nationwide during several time-critical months while a new president, promising the hope of change, reassessed U.S.-Israeli relations. His only change—endorsing more Israeli settlements on Palestinian land—quashed any hope of peace.
This ADL silencing strategy offers a microcosm of how the U.S. was induced to war in Iraq based on false intelligence. From the provocation of September 11, 2001 until the invasion of March 2003, war-planners ignored, dismissed or sought to silence anyone critical of the spurious premises offered for war.
Only later did we discover that the intelligence was fixed around a preset agenda. Even now, Americans are unaware that the U.S.-led invasion had long been an Israeli goal.
In similar fashion, an ADL campaign silenced on-campus criticism of Israel’s December 2008 assault on Gaza. At the University of California Santa Barbara, ADL-initiated charges were lodged against sociology Professor William Robinson. The disciplinary action dragged on until June 24th when 100 professors and 20 department heads demanded an end to all proceedings.
By then the damage was done—to the reputation of Professor Robinson, to academic freedom at the University of California and to national security as this campaign silenced academics countrywide. While Robinson’s reputation can be restored, the damage to national security is irreparable.
Manipulating Thought
The ADL and the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles coordinated the assault on Robinson after he shared with students from his globalization website a photo essay critical of Israel. The essay had circulated for weeks on the Internet.
Aaron Ettenberg, a member of the Faculty Senate Charges Committee, collaborated with Santa Barbara Rabbi Arthur Gross-Schaefer who reviled Robinson in the local community and urged—along with the ADL—that he be disciplined by the university for his “anti-Semitic” behavior.
Chancellor Henry Yang was subjected to threats to withhold funding featuring a campaign led by ADL National Director Abe Foxman and Rabbi Marvin Heir from the Wiesenthal Center.
Professor Ettenberg had served the previous two years as president of the local chapter of B’nai B’rith, an ADL affiliate. Rabbi Gross-Schaefer was director of the local chapter of Hillel, an on-campus ADL affiliate


------------
Legalizing Treason
Are Hate Crime Laws A Threat To Liberty?
By Jeff Gates
November 22, 2009 "OMP" -- In a representative system of government, the greatest threat to liberty is manipulation of the facts required for informed citizen participation. Anyone who cherishes freedom should be alarmed at the ongoing success of such manipulation and outraged that its common source traces to a purported ally.
Winning wars in the Information Age largely depends on winning the battle for public opinion. Thus the opinion-shaping role of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) when it attacked a high profile California professor for his criticism of Israeli policy in Palestine.
That ADL intimidation campaign successfully chilled debate on campuses nationwide during several time-critical months while a new president, promising the hope of change, reassessed U.S.-Israeli relations. His only change—endorsing more Israeli settlements on Palestinian land—quashed any hope of peace.
This ADL silencing strategy offers a microcosm of how the U.S. was induced to war in Iraq based on false intelligence. From the provocation of September 11, 2001 until the invasion of March 2003, war-planners ignored, dismissed or sought to silence anyone critical of the spurious premises offered for war.
Only later did we discover that the intelligence was fixed around a preset agenda. Even now, Americans are unaware that the U.S.-led invasion had long been an Israeli goal.
In similar fashion, an ADL campaign silenced on-campus criticism of Israel’s December 2008 assault on Gaza. At the University of California Santa Barbara, ADL-initiated charges were lodged against sociology Professor William Robinson. The disciplinary action dragged on until June 24th when 100 professors and 20 department heads demanded an end to all proceedings.
By then the damage was done—to the reputation of Professor Robinson, to academic freedom at the University of California and to national security as this campaign silenced academics countrywide. While Robinson’s reputation can be restored, the damage to national security is irreparable.
Manipulating Thought
The ADL and the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles coordinated the assault on Robinson after he shared with students from his globalization website a photo essay critical of Israel. The essay had circulated for weeks on the Internet.
Aaron Ettenberg, a member of the Faculty Senate Charges Committee, collaborated with Santa Barbara Rabbi Arthur Gross-Schaefer who reviled Robinson in the local community and urged—along with the ADL—that he be disciplined by the university for his “anti-Semitic” behavior.
Chancellor Henry Yang was subjected to threats to withhold funding featuring a campaign led by ADL National Director Abe Foxman and Rabbi Marvin Heir from the Wiesenthal Center.
Professor Ettenberg had served the previous two years as president of the local chapter of B’nai B’rith, an ADL affiliate. Rabbi Gross-Schaefer was director of the local chapter of Hillel, an on-campus ADL affiliate
That'll buff right out 



- The Old Fogducker
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Its encouraging that you are beginning to see the light Boosted.
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Nice sane peaceful rational (non-extemist) people that we should support, eh???
How long until they come for us??

How long until they come for us??

That'll buff right out 



Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
I don't have a whole lot to contribute on this one, but I have a friend who is working with a Christian Peacemaker Team in occupied Palestine right now - thought I'd let you all read some excerpts from a letter she sent today:
It's easy to forget that these are human beings that we keep hearing about in this story. Both sides have committed wrongs, and on both sides, innocents are being hurt in infinite ways.This will have to short and insufficient to explain what I've been doing and experiencing and hearing in the last few days. It is 11 pm here and we need to be up at six in the morning for school patrol.
We left Jerusalem on a tour bus with a group called "Breaking the Silence". They are a group of former Israeli combatants that have spoken out on things that they have actually done. For example, they would use the Palestinians for military training. They would find a family, making sure it was innocent (it was important that they were innocent) and in the middle of the night search their homes, detaining the man of the house, blindfolding and handcuffing him, driving him around in for a while then dumping him off at the house again. No explanation.
On the tour we stopped at Bir al 'ldd, which was a community of cave dwelling shepherds, but they were chased out about 10 years ago. They have recently returned and there have been many problems with the settlers in the area. So far only 2 families have come back, but they are hopeful that more will return. Their hospitality was awe inspiring. This family with nothing offered an entire bus load of tourist tea. Rabbis for Human Rights were also their helping them fix the stone pens that had been destroyed. The army was also there. They followed us from where the bus let us off, and when we walked up the hill to the village. They didn't do anything, but was strange to be watched by a group of men with very large guns.
The bus eventually let us off near the village of at Tuwani, where we would be staying for the next couple of nights. It is amazing how quickly this village became home. Even with the language barrier, I managed to play a game of catch with a boy who lived above where we were staying. The members of the permanent CPT team in Tuwani also made us feel at home. Their names are Josh, Sam, Laura (who had been beaten by Settlers the day before we arrived and had to get a stitch on her head) and Sarah. Steve is also a part of the team, but he was on break in the city most of the time we were there. The determination of the villagers to stay on their land, not to react violently when they and their children are threatened and to improve their village is amazing. Most recently they have been trying to get electricity to Tuwani, but the Israeli government has issued a stop work order and has confiscated their wire.
There are separate road systems, electrical grids (or lack thereof) and water systems (again, or lack of) for the Palestinians and the Israeli settlers. This fits with the definition of apartied.
In Tuwani we would monitor the military escort of the school children from the small community of Tuba to Tuwani. It is said that this is the only place in the West Bank that Palestinian children run towards Israeli soldiers. The children's route takes them right past the Settlers, and they have been harassed many times. We make sure that the army actually shows up [to escort them]. Sometimes they don't.
We had a chance to visit one of the Jewish Settlers in the nearby settlement of Suseya. The contrast from the village to the settlement was startling. While in the village every drop of water is precious and they depend on cisterns (it's a drought remember) the Settlement had grass. While the village had no electricity, the settlers have large air-conditioned homes with refrigerators. They even have grass. The settler himself was a little bit startling in his Zionist rhetoric. He truly believes that the Arabs (as he refers to them) want to kill the Jews and push them into the sea.
We worshiped Sunday morning beside some ruined stone homes and an old dry cistern and thought about Thirst. It was amazing beyond words. It is hard to imagine being in the hills of Sarah and Abraham, and where David hid in caves from Saul and worshiping the same God, under the same sky.
That night we hiked for an hour over the 'mountains', along rocky ground and goat paths to the small community of Tuba. When we arrived, the children were playing a game of soccer. We ate dinner with them, and one little girl tried to teach me and Jess Arabic. I think she was sadly disappointed in us. There was a family of 11 living in this cave that we stayed in. These are the people that the government calls terrorists. They can barely survive, let alone get weapons. They have had their homes demolished and their herds poisoned (their only real source of income), and yet this is home and they return and rebuild, over and over again. In the morning we walk the children to where they meet the soldiers. One little grabs my hand to hold along the way. We then returned to Tuwani.
It was incredible how fast we bacame attached to the village and the people in it. After only 3 days we were quite sad to leave. But we hopped into the van when Rich told us to and now are in the city of Hebron, ready for a new adventure.
oops, time up. Went to the Negev desert and heard from the Bedouins who have similar land issues. We planted wheat with them in an act of solidarity. There were other peace groups there as well. We visited Islamic journalist Khaled Amayreh and heard his passionate opinion (which was a 180 from the Settler's but sounded very similar). We also visited with a woman named Amal who has founded a woman's rights organization in Palestine. She is amazing and quickly could become one of my heroes. A firm, patient strength in the face of much opposition.
Much love to you all, thank you for your love and prayers.
Salaam,
Nancy.
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Its encouraging that you are beginning to see the light Boosted.
It's difficult with all the destructive interference which seems to be emanating from my hind-quaters.. the roses are in perfect bloom though despite the poor light cycle.
- The Old Fogducker
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Looks like Nancy ... or is her name really Betty-Jo Bielofski from Nick Danger, Third Eye? .... will make a very good human shield. She was in Baghdad defending some missile sites for Saddam wasn't she?
Nick Danger, Third Eye also features "Rockie" at the 1:14 mark. Betty-Jo (or is it Nancy) comes into play at 2:38
OFD
Nick Danger, Third Eye also features "Rockie" at the 1:14 mark. Betty-Jo (or is it Nancy) comes into play at 2:38
OFD
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
At the risk of offending the mods again - OFD: Go @#$! yourself. You are a useless piece of human garbage.The Old Fogducker wrote:Looks like Nancy ... or is her name really Betty-Jo Bielofski from Nick Danger, Third Eye? .... will make a very good human shield. She was in Baghdad defending some missile sites for Saddam wasn't she?
Nick Danger, Third Eye also features "Rockie" at the 1:14 mark. Betty-Jo (or is it Nancy) comes into play at 2:38
OFD
It's people like you who cause the problems in this world. Standing on the sidelines making snide comments is not going to help anyone - I feel nothing but pity for someone like you who has so little to live for that he (I assume you're a he, though I'd prefer "it") needs to rile people who are trying to work for positive change.
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Christian Peacemaker Team? Ok. That’s the name of the organization and I presume
they are on a “fact finding mission”. Once the fact finding is completed, then what?
I think what OFD is trying to point out, is that this is a very dangerous neighborhood.
If you don’t have a vested interest in being there..you shouldn’t be there. The world doesn’t need any
more Rachael Correy’s (sp) .
they are on a “fact finding mission”. Once the fact finding is completed, then what?
I think what OFD is trying to point out, is that this is a very dangerous neighborhood.
If you don’t have a vested interest in being there..you shouldn’t be there. The world doesn’t need any
more Rachael Correy’s (sp) .
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
More like "accompanying", I think. From what I understand there is a group of three or four who live there full-time (my friend is on more of a fact finding visit I think - she'll come back and tell us what she saw first-hand).JakeYYZ wrote:Christian Peacemaker Team? Ok. That’s the name of the organization and I presume
they are on a “fact finding mission”. Once the fact finding is completed, then what?
According to the CPT website, their mission in Palestine is as follows:
"a continuing presence in the Hebron District (West Bank) since June 1995. Team members stand with Palestinians and Israeli peace groups engaged in nonviolent opposition to Israeli military occupation, collective punishment, settler harassment, home demolitions and land confiscation." I really don't know a huge amount about what they do - the one fellow whom I met spent time in Iraq helping the locals to communicate with the US military (translation / advocating). (http://www.cpt.org/work)
Here's a description of what exactly is going on with the escort duty that she describes in the letter:
http://www.cpt.org/node/7353
Can you imagine being attacked for just walking to school? These are children!CPTnet
5 November 2008
AT-TUWANI REFLECTION: The school run
by Jan Benvie
Imagine the scene: a group of children walking to school. Some of the older children are jostling and pushing each other, joking together; the younger ones are walking quietly, hand in hand. It could be a scene from almost anywhere in the world.
But this is Palestine, under Israeli military occupation. The children are Palestinian. Two Israeli soldiers walk in front of the small group and an army jeep follows behind.
Each school day the Israeli military escorts children, aged six to twelve years old, to school in at-Tuwani. Armed Israeli settlers attack any Palestinian using the public road, which passes between the Israeli settlement of Ma’on and the settlement outpost of Havat Ma’on (both illegal under international law). The escort began in 2004 after Israeli settler attacks on the children and their international accompaniers received widespread publicity. The military will not allow CPT to walk with the children, but their parents have asked us to monitor the escort from nearby.
Despite the military escort, the children's journey to and from school is still dangerous and frightening.
Every day the children must walk part of the route unescorted because the military refuses to continue beyond a gate that settlers erected on the road early in 2008. Some days, settlers approach the children, yelling and threatening them, despite the presence of the escort. Sometimes the escort is late and the children must wait, frightened and vulnerable, in an area where settlers have previously attacked them. Some days it takes only half an hour to travel the three km journey between home and school, other days it can take two hours.
In the morning when the children reach the meeting place, some older children walk ahead, further into danger, to see if the escort is waiting beyond the settler gate. If it is, then the others quickly follow, and the children complete their journey to school. If the escort is not there, the older children walk back and they all wait at the edge of the settlement. CPTers, observing from a nearby hilltop, call the escort dispatcher. Sometimes CPTers must make several phone calls and sometimes the children must wait for over an hour before the soldiers arrive.
After school, the children, in the company of two CPTers, walk to the edge of at-Tuwani. If the escort is late the children play, or get CPTers to help them with English homework. The waiting can be arduous, but at least the waiting place is safer than the path they will walk unescorted near their journey's end.
Despite the Israeli settlers' harassment and physical attacks, despite the tardiness of the Israeli military escort, the children continue going to school every day. Going to school in Palestine, an everyday event all over the world, is yet another act of non-violent resistance against the violent Israeli occupation.
Just poking around the website, I also found a report on what happened to her friend who had to get stitches because of the settlers: http://www.cpt.org/cptnet/2009/11/18/tu ... rob-cpters
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OFD is trying to stir the pot. Anyone knows that it's a dangerous place, and I know Nancy didn't go there without seriously considering the consequences... frankly I doubt anyone would go there without reason.I think what OFD is trying to point out, is that this is a very dangerous neighborhood.
If you don’t have a vested interest in being there..you shouldn’t be there. The world doesn’t need any
more Rachael Correy’s (sp) .
You say that we shouldn't go without a vested interest... do you think that creating peace between people is not a worthwhile cause? I realise that many in the west see the Israel / Palestine situation as hopeless, but there are still many, many people working toward peace in the area, despite what is heard on the news.
- The Old Fogducker
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
Let me guess ... you voted liberal or NDP right?
I'm not stirring the pot in this thread Guido, its my opinion your friend is wasting her time with symbolism over substance measures like ... "We planted wheat with them in an act of solidarity" ... well Guido, more power to her I guess. To paraphrase the song by "The Animals" ....Its her life and she can do what she wants.
Sorry I struck such an open wound that you feel the need to resort to profanity ... always the first sign of a vocabulary cripple, although I admit I have a particularly well honed ability to upset people..... and I have few reservations about using that talent on loan from God.
OFD
I'm not stirring the pot in this thread Guido, its my opinion your friend is wasting her time with symbolism over substance measures like ... "We planted wheat with them in an act of solidarity" ... well Guido, more power to her I guess. To paraphrase the song by "The Animals" ....Its her life and she can do what she wants.
Sorry I struck such an open wound that you feel the need to resort to profanity ... always the first sign of a vocabulary cripple, although I admit I have a particularly well honed ability to upset people..... and I have few reservations about using that talent on loan from God.
OFD
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
I sure didn't vote for the conservatives! Though, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.The Old Fogducker wrote:Let me guess ... you voted liberal or NDP right?
To be honest, planting wheat "in solidarity" seemed kind of corny to me... but given that she'll only be there for three weeks or so, I guess they do what they can. Though, maybe there is some deeper meaning in that... just by existing in this area is an act of defiance in the face of the Israeli government... planting wheat, recreating roots in the land... who knows.I'm not stirring the pot in this thread Guido, its my opinion your friend is wasting her time with symbolism over substance measures like ... "We planted wheat with them in an act of solidarity" ... well Guido, more power to her I guess. To paraphrase the song by "The Animals" ....Its her life and she can do what she wants.
Believe me, I chose my words carefully in my response to you. You insinuated that my friend was some kind of Jane Fonda giving support to an enemy, which is completely inaccurate. Unless of course, you're an Israeli settler - perhaps you support attacking innocent children then beating up and robbing third parties? If that's the case, then I don't think we have anything further to discuss.Sorry I struck such an open wound that you feel the need to resort to profanity ... always the first sign of a vocabulary cripple, although I admit I have a particularly well honed ability to upset people..... and I have few reservations about using that talent on loan from God.
OFD
I feel very strongly that if you're not trying to work toward a solution then you should probably just shut up and keep your snide comments to yourself.
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
What if I criticize niss for his flying pants?
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
SO what about the Christian angle? The Palestinians are muslim right?. Hamas is pretty militantly (psychotically) Muslim. Now I realize your friend is in the West Bank, which is a whole different situation. But still, is she there to help or to help and to proselytize? Because Christain evangelicals have sure caused more than their share of problems in say Pakistan.
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
No, proselytizing isn't part of the mission... we're both from the liberal end of Christianity where evangelization like that is really not seen as proper... we're more concerned with living out our own lives in a way that is close to Christ (I say this in full light of what I said to OFD earlier).Stinson4118C wrote:SO what about the Christian angle? The Palestinians are muslim right?. Hamas is pretty militantly (psychotically) Muslim. Now I realize your friend is in the West Bank, which is a whole different situation. But still, is she there to help or to help and to proselytize? Because Christain evangelicals have sure caused more than their share of problems in say Pakistan.
I've been in a class that is about inter-religious dialogue this semester, and one of our projects was to write about why we thought our chosen faith group (Christian, Muslim, Jewish) should have control over Jerusalem, then we had a "conference" of sorts where we discussed the positions and where they came from. We knew going into it that we weren't going to solve the problems of the Middle East, but I feel like I came out of it with a better understanding of why people feel so strongly about controlling the area. In my opinion, we Christians have the least claim of all on Jerusalem in particular... our role there should be as accompaniers for the other two parties - helping to find a middle way toward peace... intermediaries, perhaps. That's the idea behind the CPT groups I think... getting between fighting factions.
I should also mention that not all the inhabitants of Palestine are Muslim - there was a significant population of Christians prior to 1947... there've been more than one group marginalised.
Also, Hamas may claim to be Muslim, but they are a political party... just like the Republicans claim to be Christian, they're leveraging religion to their own ends. I know Bin Laden is not Hamas, but the example holds - if you were to ask any Muslim in Canada or around the world whether Osama is a true Muslim they would uncategorically say "No!" (believe me, I've asked many). The few Muslim terrorists don't even account for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of the Muslims in the world. I don't have numbers handy, but I remember someone discussing the other day that if even .001 percent of Muslims were terrorists, we'd be talking about over a million terrorists going around blowing shit up. If that were the case, I think we'd know by now! The point is, even in Palestine the vast, vast majority of Muslims are simply trying to live their lives in peace. The same goes for Jews - it's only a radical minority (who I think many Jews in the West don't support) who have power that are causing so much pain for so many. I really don't like to speak on others' behalf, but I think I'm being fairly accurate here.
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Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
If I had wanted to tie your friend Nancy to Jane Fonda, I would have done so directly. My post refers to the use of "do-gooder dupes" as human shields ... as is expressed in this video from Hamas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y
Or as per this group who travelled from Britain to Iraq during the build up to the Gulf War
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/index.html? ... id=1671407
But of course, that was all the way back in early 2003, so you were likely in public school ... maybe grade 7 or 8, so it is doubtful you'd recall that.
As I've said ... this is a classic example of "feel good over substance" that is all too common. Like attending a midnight rally for world peace in your local park, and everyone lights a candle ... woo wee ... that'll sure do something measurable and practical.
OFD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y
Or as per this group who travelled from Britain to Iraq during the build up to the Gulf War
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/index.html? ... id=1671407
But of course, that was all the way back in early 2003, so you were likely in public school ... maybe grade 7 or 8, so it is doubtful you'd recall that.
As I've said ... this is a classic example of "feel good over substance" that is all too common. Like attending a midnight rally for world peace in your local park, and everyone lights a candle ... woo wee ... that'll sure do something measurable and practical.
OFD
Re: Criticizing Israel Isn't Antisemitism
I don't speak Arabic, so I can't confirm that what was put in the subtitles is true... however if the translation is accurate, I'm not sure what you're on about... I think that video could just as easily be interpreted (considering that it's completely without context) as a speech from a desperate people. The only thing they have to fight back with is a negative PR campaign against Israel...? Oh yeah, and rocks. Besides, the CPTs are not hanging out with Hamas. Like I said in my previous post, most people are just trying to live their lives in peace.The Old Fogducker wrote:If I had wanted to tie your friend Nancy to Jane Fonda, I would have done so directly. My post refers to the use of "do-gooder dupes" as human shields ... as is expressed in this video from Hamas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y
I'm not quite as young as you think, OFD - perhaps I'm not as old and wizened as yourself, but this isn't my first time in post secondary education. In 2003 I was working full time in IT for a power company. I'm sure it's my naivete that confused you - perhaps I should be more cynical.Or as per this group who travelled from Britain to Iraq during the build up to the Gulf War
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/index.html? ... id=1671407
But of course, that was all the way back in early 2003, so you were likely in public school ... maybe grade 7 or 8, so it is doubtful you'd recall that.
As I've said ... this is a classic example of "feel good over substance" that is all too common. Like attending a midnight rally for world peace in your local park, and everyone lights a candle ... woo wee ... that'll sure do something measurable and practical.
OFD
I do understand what you're saying about the "feel good" factor... I myself feel that actions speak a lot louder than symbolism, which is probably why I see what the CPTs are doing is very noble and a practical way of living out a response to empire. My friend isn't there for necessarily the same reasons that the CPT members are who live there full time. Her role right now is to learn about what's happening in Israel / Palestine so, unfortunately, she doesn't get the same opportunities for practical expressions as they might.