Becoming a pilot- Is it really that bad?

[Andres9123]

Ok im a high school graduate and im looking for some SERIOUS advice i dont want whinny %#$@. I need the advice from serious professionals that now the field. I realize that entry level jobs for pilots have shitty salary and im prepared to see the hard times through. I understand that within 5 years usually you start getting better payed jobs. My main question is, Is it really THAT bad? It seems that the general attitude to aspiring pilots in this forum is - kill yourself dude you are only making the surplus pilot problem worse-. Am i going to be unemployed for a long time when i get my CPL? I need as much information i can get. Anything and everything is greatly appreciated, this might be the most important decision of my life and as long as i can make a living out of it i will push through because this is what i love.

[Big Pistons Forever]

My main question is, Is it really THAT bad?

Yes

[all4u]

In my 7+ years flying commercially I've learned two things and one of them is that 90% of the pilot population - for some reason - loves telling those that are passionate to get into the field 100+ reasons not to.

The other is that if you ever hear someone in aviation say, after someone mentions pay, "well we sure didn't get into it for the money, did we?" making you feel like they are hard done by, that the case indeed is that they make a ridiculous amount of money.

If you have a passion to fly planes, then get into it knowing that the first few years can be quite rough, but in the end you can find a job you like with decent pay, just be willing to move around.

all4u

[Beefitarian]

I hate to tell you kid but, I have fresh "Never been hit by a prop" certification and can't get a job flying anywhere. I'll show them though, once the "Pilot shortage" happens they'll have to pay me to finish my CPL.

[all4u]

I saw that. I hope I too can one day hold in my hands an official 'never been hit by a prop' award.

Fingers Crossed!

[burhead1]

Sorry I can't answere your main question as I fly for recreation but how do you know this

because this is what i love.

Do you fly now? I am not being a dick, just trying to understand where your coming from.

[Beefitarian]

Maybe he meant posting on the internet. I know that's a love of mine. It's my dedication to it that's lead to where I am today.

[rjonno]

No it is not really that bad

[Beefitarian]

Read this thread viewtopic.php?f=54&t=71114 it might help explain the situation.

Do you think you'll be able to get a degree of somekind?

[Andres9123]

Well its just the thought of getting into a 45k+ debt to be unemployed does not sound good .... not good at all. Ive wanted to become a pilot ever since i can remember, and i am willing to work hard to achieve this. I will try to go for every option i get, like trying to get into the RCAF. But the uncertainty (from what ive learned on this forums) is just really terrifying. I dont have unrealistic goals, but i wanna know if i am going to have to be delegated to another profession waiting to get a pilot job.

Right know what I think im going to do is get my PPL (11k <--- F the price.) work for a year pay it off then get my CPL around 35k, F the price too, ( i live in Calgary so any information regarding what flight school/ college is better to do this is appreciated) and hope to God i get a freaking job as a pilot cuz if i have to work doing something else paying all that money i might cut my balls off.

[Andres9123]

Do you think you'll be able to get a degree of somekind?

No, i do not. I just wouldn't have the money to do so.

[SunWuKong]

hope to God i get a freaking job as a pilot cuz if i have to work doing something else paying all that money i might cut my balls off.

Hopefully many pilots who saved FIRST then went to training after didn't cut off any part of their body...

In life when you are asking about something "is that worth it?", maybe that's because you shouldn't do it.
It makes me think of a friend who asked me, should I get married to this girl? I answered him that he wouldn't ask this question if he wanted to, he would just know. He hated me. People don't like to be told directly true facts. The guy got married, but lives with an other girl now... I won't go into detail but he is in kind of trouble now.
Sorry about this comparison, but I beleive you get my point.

[Big Pistons Forever]

My 02 cents

Get a marketable university degree or a recognized trade certification (eg electrician) first. Work on your flying qualifications as you can afford it. That is what I did, I was 27 when I started my first commercial flying job(instructing). I was debt free and had two other marketable skills which would allow me to earn a good living outside of aviation. Because I had those skills I could be choosy about what flying jobs I would accept and the ability to quit bad jobs. I walked out the door on two operators, one run by a total a**hole and the other that continually pushed me to do unsafe things.

[Andres9123]

In life when you are asking about "is that worth it?", maybe that's because you shouldn't do it.
It makes me think of a friend who asked me, should I get married to this girl? I answered him that he wouldn't ask this question if he should. He hated me. People don't like to be told directly true facts. The guy got married, but lives with an other girl now... I won't go into detail but he is in kind of trouble now.
Sorry about this comparaison, but I beleive you get my point.

I do get your point. Its just that id like to be able to support my (future) family as well. Is that too much to ask? a decent wage so one can live one's life comfortably.... I am willing to make sacrifices to do what i really wanna do, but a McDonald's wage is kind of ridiculous. I am not trying to be egotistical but i am a smart guy and sure i could go to university get an engineering degree make lots of money, but we only live once... and i feel that if i dont follow my dream, my life will be wasted.

[Northern Flyer]

Go for it... I really can't tell you what the market is right now, I got into this gig 10 or 12 years ago, and I have not had anything to do with hiring for the last 5 or so. All I can tell you is that from my experience it has been a good line of work. I enjoy what I do. When I started flying I was about 20, I had twin boys a wife, and a home to pay for. We made it work. It was only the first two summers that that the pay was hard to live on. Since then my wage has been quite comfortable.

Good luck whatever you decide. If I was in Calgary, I would go out to Springbank, and do my rotary wing licence.

[Andres9123]

Thank you all for your input. Great to hear Northern Flyer, good to know it works out for some of us.

I have also been looking into becoming a VFR ATC, short training program, decent pay. Not sure what the demand is for ATCs right now, guess ill have to find out. Then i could save some money and start getting my licenses and ratings. My goal would be to start my flying career before i turn 30 (too late?).

[SunWuKong]

I too have an excellent experience with aviation, and this the best professional experience in my life, truly.
But I won't tell somebody I don't know "go for it". Because our personal experience (bad or not) has nothing to do with his decision.
And really, let's come back on earth one second, is there any person who beleives this job has to be advertised among teenagers for them to take a decision? That's already one of the job the most attractive to kids/teenagers, and this is already one of the few job some people are ready to pay (buy) in order to pretend they are pilot. Let's keep that in mind, because this the reality.
To say that differently, how to beleive somebody truly motivated to be a pilot (and we should be to enjoy this career right?) would stop just because somebody said think twice?

We don't know the future, we don't know each individual (some just want an easy career, a hat, a fancy uniform, a salary and really could be desapointed, whatever they say initially...), we don't know our destiny, or free will for the most energetic ones. As a result an advice cannot be easy given, and each person wishing to make a decision should be given information, should be reminded this is up to their intelligence and comprehension, but shouldn't be given a decision ready to use like "go for it".

[square]

My 02 cents

Get a marketable university degree or a recognized trade certification (eg electrician) first. Work on your flying qualifications as you can afford it. That is what I did, I was 27 when I started my first commercial flying job(instructing). I was debt free and had two other marketable skills which would allow me to earn a good living outside of aviation. Because I had those skills I could be choosy about what flying jobs I would accept and the ability to quit bad jobs. I walked out the door on two operators, one run by a total a**hole and the other that continually pushed me to do unsafe things.

My 02 cents, don't listen to his advice. If you want to fly, fly. Don't hedge your bets. Don't put yourself 9 years behind the competition. It costs you more than being unemployed for god's sake and it's something you don't even want to do. Just go do it and pay the rest off later. Don't fail and you're fine. You can always get a job at a future shop if you don't want to work for an operator you don't like, and you don't have to worry about paying off a second education! Hell a friend of mine was making over $100k a year fuelling for shell.. why bother with a fallback career. Later in life you'll regret the things you didn't do more than the things you did.

[Andres9123]

As a result an advice cannot be easy given, and each person wishing to make a decision should be given information, should be reminded this is up to their intelligence and comprehension, but shouldn't be given a decision ready to use like "go for it".

INFORMATION that is what im looking for. Honesty. For instance, if i get a second career and start my flying career when im 30 is that too late?

[SunWuKong]

No easy answer here neither.

What do we know? If you take EXACTLY the same guy, with the same level of education (or same level of no-education: going to university is not mandatory), then the younger you are, the best it is. You see, you could have figured it out yourself.

Ok, if it can help: I have seen a guy starting at 20 and giving up, I have seen one guy starting at 40, and he got his first wide body F/O position at 44 (Hongkong). If he gets his upgrade soon enough (his cargo company is buying new airplanes), he will be just on time (age) to be a wide body captain, funny... Funny because if he had started 20 years ealier, nobody can affirm his career would have been better at the end.

30 years old is definitely not too old to be a very good pilot and have an excellent career. But we cannot garanty you anything here.

[BigQ]

I love what I do, I make decent money with it - and with a side job to make even more money. But as long as you don't care about the brand on your jeans, the quality of your shirts, and the brand of beer that you drink, anything will work.

Be prepared to move, it'll be the best thing your flying career can do. My first application went out 2 months after I had my CPL, I heard back from that company 3 days later, 2 weeks later I bought a one-way ticket to my new town, crammed as much clothes and my computer in 2 suitcases, best move of my life! Since you live in Calgary, look for jobs in NWT, YT, SK, or MB. Do your research, send PMs to people you suspect or know works at a certain company, to get your info. Lurk on these forums, on PCC, anywhere that can give you glimpses.

Some guys that I studied with, still living with their parents trying to fund an instructor rating on a part-time job at Subway, those are the guys likely to tell you that it is THAT bad. The world is GLOBAL now, if you stick in one place, insist on one place, you'll never get a coveted "good job", you'll just get the scraps.

I've got the best job in the world flying chips and pop. It's all in the mindset.

Good luck dude.

[righthandman]

Yeah sure, didn't you know? There's been a huge pilot shortage..........................................................................

.......................for the last 30 years.

Actually i am going to edit this post because in spite of everything that is wrong with aviation today, if this is your passion then go for it. But be forewarned that things may not work out for you as you expected and you will in all likelihood sacrifice a lot in life to try to follow your dreams. Also, it's always best to have a "Plan B", whether it be in aviation situations or in life generally.

(I really hate becoming cynical and miserable about this whole aviation thing personally, so that is why I edited my first cynical/miserable response. Why ruin someone else's dreams and passions?)

[Beechball]

748HO, you should step in here and give this man some advice.....

[mbav8r]

Well its just the thought of getting into a 45k+

You might want to budget for closer to 70k, last person I talked to, who was getting thier licence in Calgary showed me the going rates and it was 70k+. If you're going to do this over a longer period of time, you should also plan on 10-15% more, just because of having to repeat lessons and price changes.
I'm one of those guys who would give you 101 reasons not to choose this path, and I certainly didn't do it for the money.
all4u

The other is that if you ever hear someone in aviation say, after someone mentions pay, "well we sure didn't get into it for the money, did we?" making you feel like they are hard done by, that the case indeed is that they make a ridiculous amount of money.

I'll tell you what, I'm 15 years into this and I'm making less money now then I was 11 years ago and it'll be a few more years yet before I'm back to that wage. People on here today talking about starting salary of 18-19k, funny 18k was my starting wage 15 years ago, and I bought my 1st house for 63,000.00. That same house today is 220,000 but the starting wage is the same, yep sure did get into this for the money.....
I'm curious all4u, what is a ridiculous amount of money these days, 25k maybe 30k?

[Bede]

No, it's not that bad. It is a lot of work for the first 10 years or so, but there is no reward without risk. If flying is what you want to do, do it.

I like BPF's advice about getting something to fall back on first. I did the opposite; I started flying young and did university while I was flying (a few courses at a time). Either way it is good advice. Perhaps get an AME licence while flying.

I suggest buying a C150 or something like that and getting a good class 1 or 2 instructor. You will save money and after you are done, you can sell the airplane if you like for a similar price as what you paid for it. Do some research before you buy an airplane though. If you're inclined towards floats spend the money on a float plane (a Champ or so would be excellent) and build 200 hrs that way.