Air Canada starting a LCC

[fly4ever]

Hi All! Just read on another forum about Air Canada's CEO's masterplan for the LCC.
I didn't think that he could start this type of thing without the original AC employees.
Why does he make it sound like he can?
I'm Confused by what is coming out of YUL Head Office!
It was a article from the 15th of April where he talks about his plan for this new LCC.

[bcflyer]

Our scope clause prevents him from doing what he is proposing. He will either need the pilots onboard or have us sign a let allowing it to happen.

This has happened before at AC. Remember Roots Air? AC threated to start it, the pilots stood firm and it never happened. There have been other threats over the years as well that never materialized. The key element to all of them being defeated was a strong unified pilot group. While it would be hard to describe the AC pilots as unified the last few years, the last couple of weeks has seen a definite change. Weither or not we have the strength to stand together when really pushed is yet to be seen.....

[bearinmind]

bcflyer you are bang on with your last comments. I am not going to repeat myself from the implodes thread but, we have just given CR the company that he wanted. He now has the most powerfull employee group chasing their shadow and he is moving forward with all of his plans.

Remember last time he was here he wanted to move the EMB flying. Now he wants to go after all of the heavy flying, and convert half of the heavy flying to LCC. The trend is that he is going to lower cost everything and create an every man for himself culture among the employee groups. He got it with us.

I've said it before and I will say it again, lets call in the pro's, get another group in here and have a team of negotiators at the table in a couple of weeks, not 6 months. We can stop this craziness of east vs west and senior vs junior and move on.

Have a look at the USA flag carriers, see what their payscale is. Remember to calculate the currency exchange at the time of the contract, as their currency has devalued. See what union they used and lets pick up the phone and give them a call and get some negotiators in here.

[WetJet]

Pilot wages have never been the determining factor in the success (Westjet good wages) or failure (Jetsgo notso good) of a LCC.

[yyz monkey]

http://youtu.be/JRRgd9Pzmgs?hd=1

Regular AC employees to start with everyone following on a B scale. I'll bet the B scale pay won't extend to the executive.

[What About Me?]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... le1993554/

In the absence of any new contract, Sky Regional Airlines Inc. is breaching current union rules, but the new flights will go ahead as scheduled because ACPA will await further labour talks before deciding whether to file a union grievance about Sky Regional, Mr. Strachan said.

[hithere]

What an incredible opportunity for ACPA to have extracted bargaining capital. AC has already sold seats and advertised to get sky Regional off the ground on May 01. I'm sure if ACPA had stood firm, the company would have been willing to sweeten the TA.

[yycflyguy]

What an incredible opportunity for ACPA to have extracted bargaining capital. AC has already sold seats and advertised to get sky Regional off the ground on May 01. I'm sure if ACPA had stood firm, the company would have been willing to sweeten the TA.

You are talking past tense. There has been no ratification by the pilot union allowing this flying. The pressure is on the company to get a deal done or miss their May 1st start date.... or violate the contract with an impending grievance and possible job action at mainline when in a legal position to do so. This aint over.

[fly4ever]

Can AC management just get Jazz to start the operation out of the island.
Are they not training now on the Q400?
Can AC management do that under the current TA agreements?

[mbav8r]

Even if they could, Jazz wouldn't be ready until the beginning of June, maybe mid May. Some pilots are in training now, I'm not sure if they are even at the sim stage yet and as far as I know, we don't have delivery of our first q400 yet.

[vic777]

Maybe a LCC manoeuvre is an attempt to mitigate the chaos of 150 plus returning Pilots and all the other employees from the other Departments, or Branches, if you took the three day business course at Harvard. Valuable employees who have contributed to the past success of AC. This LCC could be a holding area for new employees, while AC comes to terms with the NWO. All a result of ACPA ineptitude, based on ......

[Johnny Mapleleaf]

The pressure is on the company to get a deal done or miss their May 1st start date.... or violate the contract with an impending grievance and possible job action at mainline when in a legal position to do so.

Job action? Our union? When in a legal position to do so? I hardly think so. First off, we are months away from being in a legal strike position, assuming everything stays off the rails and the pilots could actually get their act together to vote for anything.

Second, what are the damages? I suspect that it will all translate into a money payment, like a wet lease credit, just like the cargo operation did a few years ago. We could ask the lawyers here if ACPA could get an injunction to prevent the operation from starting up, but I somehow doubt that any court would believe that it is anything other than a problem that can be dealt with by payment of flying credits or money, after ACPA had already tentatively agreed to allow this operation to go ahead, in full expectation that the money Air Canada had invested in the start-up, including leasehold interests, training etc. plus its investment in marketing the service, would not be lost.

[Understated]

Want an idea of what one of the start-up costs was? Have a look at this Federal Court decision:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/201 ... fc1335.pdf

[19] In the result, Toronto Port Authority is awarded $705,131.35 for costs and taxes and
$194,851.15 for disbursements which, in total, is $899,982.45. Porter is awarded $836,248.65 for
costs and taxes and $156,422.88 for disbursements which, in total, is $992,671.53. These awards
include applicable taxes.

$1.9 million in costs and disbursements alone, that Air Canada had to pay as a result of losing its case. That doesn't include the bill from its law firm, McCarthy Tetrault LLP. (probably about the same amount). And these costs were only a small part of the whole package related to the Toronto Island Airport proposed operations.

[yycguy]

Even if they could, Jazz wouldn't be ready until the beginning of June, maybe mid May. Some pilots are in training now, I'm not sure if they are even at the sim stage yet and as far as I know, we don't have delivery of our first q400 yet.

If they really needed Jazz to start up the island flying, there is nothing requiring them to use the Q400's.

[SuperTroll]

Will maintenance, rampies, dispatchers, CSAs, schedulers, managers, and executives go on a B scale to get the LCC off the ground? Or will the pilots be expected to carry all the cost cuts on their backs? Again.
I bet it doesn't create any new jobs, just a transfer of all ACV flying to the LCC. Every flight to the Caribbean and Europe will be "Vacation" flights.