reason(s) for a p.f.o.

YO_MAMMA · Post by **YO_MAMMA** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:41 pm

Hey All,

just got the no thanks e-mail. I'm a regional left seater with 4k hours and felt pretty good walking out of the building after the interview day. what possible reason(s) could have get you this letter? would appreciate any input. thanks.

Beach 200 · Post by **Beach 200** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:10 am

I think it should be under one of "The Seven Wonders of the World" category.

Sorry to hear about it, hopefully in 6 months better luck.

wrongway · Post by **wrongway** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:54 am

Did you answer yes to the "I would like to be a florist" question?

pile-it5 · Post by **pile-it5** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:08 am

Hey Yo_momma, Sorry to hear about the pfo. Better luck in 6 months. Just wondering what date you interviewed? I'm just trying to get an idea how long it takes for them to send something out.

YO_MAMMA · Post by **YO_MAMMA** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:27 am

got a reply exactly after five weeks. Interviewed in May.

catan man · Post by **catan man** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:24 am

That sucks dude. It's a torture to wait like that just to come the this kinda result. Whatever the reason, try not to feel bad or take it to heart. I know a handful of pilots who've had this happen. One friend among them confused the shit out of me.

This guy had everything one would imagine that seemingly would be a shoe in. Father at AC, aviation diploma, 4500+ hrs. 80% of it PIC from singles, up to, 1900 etc. Even has his own aerobatic in the barn. He flys to competitions and mostly wins or at least places every time. Very intelligent, with a wonderful personality. There's probably more I could add but you get it. PFO... WTF????

Keep your chin up. 6 Months goes by pretty quick.

av8tor_assrope · Post by **av8tor_assrope** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:35 pm

I think I know who you're talking about catan man. Solid guy. Also worked with a guy, ex military (ground) degree from RMC, speaks French and all around solid guy...PFO.

I think they just throw everyones name on a dartboard and whoever it lands on...................

Changes in Latitudes · Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:22 pm

Sometimes people have guardian angels working for them that keep them out of bad situations. Perhaps Clarence got his wings on this one.

Ah_yeah · Post by **Ah_yeah** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:52 pm

Yo Mamma, maybe "yo mamma" should be your response to AC. Before I am labeled as another disgruntled AC pilot ( Ok, I am ) consider that your career potential at AC will not look like it once did. While Westjet has a single fleet type and the growth potential may not be what it once was, they are flush with cash and well run. Both assets for your personal outlook. I'm not sure where you work now but the old school notion of landing a job at AC and being "set" is toast. If you eventually get a call back, choose the best endorsement offered in your PIT course.
All that said, I feel for you. I know of several guys who were PFO'd who are tributes to the profession. Top notch pilots, excellent resumes and superior dedication and yet got the letter you got.
Our soon to be federaly imposed contract would have had you as a second class citizen. Maybe it was your lucky day ?
Safe travels.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:08 pm

I got PFO'd from AC years ago. I was in a pretty deep funk for a couple months. Jet time, multi turbine PIC, university. It was probably the best interview I've ever done. My career plan was always to go to AC.

In hindsight it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm flying for the teal team now. I'll spare everyone from the kool aid, but I couldn't ask for a better job.

Hopefully you will look one day and see your PFO as a positive rather than a negative.

All the best.

YO_MAMMA · Post by **YO_MAMMA** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:31 am

appreciate the positive reinforcement guys.

I'm just more or less puzzled from the fact that there are too many candidates that I know of personally who are just top notch people/pilots; who get the 'no thanks' and on the other hand I know some pilots who should not even be considered and get on.

my letter stated that "the hiring board" together came to this decision; so who is on this hiring board???? People on the hiring board are not even present during the interview; how can they make a good judgement of a candidate based on answers forwarded to them by other people who interviewed you; I believe the hiring board should actually be present during the interview. By no means I feel resentful; it would just be nice if they told you the reason; but I also understand why they can't.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:47 am

The hiring board:

indieadventurer · Post by **indieadventurer** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:18 am

Maybe there's such a thing as too much time now. A guy at the company I work for got called for an interview with 2000 tt and 500 right seat on a 704 machine. Are they worried guys with higher time, such as yourself will bounce (not that you would) after getting some jet time and a type rating, giving the instability there these days. If plans are in the works to eventually farm out the emb's etc...are they worried about keeping more qualified pilots with wages they're surely to get....
Edit - forming thought better

rudder · Post by **rudder** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:48 am

The days of DEC or 6 month upgrades on the CL65 or EMB are over. So the requirements for high experience on day 1 are no longer relevant. Who will be happier just to have an entry level job at AC - an unmarried 25 year old with no mortgage/kids or a 35 year old with all of the financial burdens commensurate with age?

It ain't complicated for the hiring board.

Sea2Sky · Post by **Sea2Sky** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:52 pm

That's nonsense. Who's more likely to survive on a first year salary in Toronto, a single income 25 year old with student debt or a 35 year old in a double income household? This is job interview, not a credit application.

Dim · Post by **Dim** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:54 pm

5500total, 1000 hrs Capt NG. Interviewed, Medical and references called.......PFO'd 3 weeks later
Sometimes it's just not meant to be.

YO_MAMMA · Post by **YO_MAMMA** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:34 pm

Dim wrote:5500total, 1000 hrs Capt NG. Interviewed, Medical and references called.......PFO'd 3 weeks later
Sometimes it's just not meant to be.

Dim

WOW!! DIM; they owe you an explanation after going through the process that far in, did they??

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:05 am

YO_MAMMA wrote:
Dim wrote:5500total, 1000 hrs Capt NG. Interviewed, Medical and references called.......PFO'd 3 weeks later
Sometimes it's just not meant to be.

Dim
WOW!! DIM; they owe you an explanation after going through the process that far in, did they??

YO_MAMMA, thats quite the statement. Shows that sense of entitlement that seems to run rampant these days. Somebody doesn't get hired and AC OWES them an explanation? Until you are actually hired, AC doesn't OWE anyone anything. Just because you are fully qualified doesn't mean you are OWED a job.
I don't proclaim to understand the hiring process. In fact I'm as mystified as the rest of you. I also have a bunch of friends who are great pilots, great people and yet got PFO'd. Dim has the right attitute. Its unfortunate but thats the way life goes.

catan man · Post by **catan man** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:45 am

Dim wrote:5500total, 1000 hrs Capt NG. Interviewed, Medical and references called.......PFO'd 3 weeks later
Sometimes it's just not meant to be.

Damn...Talk about getting the jerk around.

The Raven · Post by **The Raven** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:46 am

catan man wrote:
Dim wrote:5500total, 1000 hrs Capt NG. Interviewed, Medical and references called.......PFO'd 3 weeks later
Sometimes it's just not meant to be.
Damn...Talk about getting the jerk around.

I don't understand how he got "jerked around". Air Canada interviewed him, ran him through the medical and called his references. Somewhere along the line something came back negative. Perhaps drugs were found in his blood samples. Perhaps his liver enzymes were up which would indicate excessive alcohol use. Perhaps his previous employers gave a bad reference. Who knows what the reason is, but rest assured there is a reason for the PFO. It looks to me like he got a fair shot.

kevind · Post by **kevind** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:54 am

or maybe they needed 'x' people and he rated # 'x+1'. Nothing bad, just 'x' people rated higher by their standards.

catan man · Post by **catan man** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:57 am

Good point.

chatman · Post by **chatman** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:23 am

The number one reason... failed the medical or vision test

El Comat · Post by **El Comat** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:02 pm

catan man wrote: This guy had everything one would imagine that seemingly would be a shoe in. Father at AC, aviation diploma, 4500+ hrs. 80% of it PIC from singles, up to, 1900 etc. Even has his own aerobatic in the barn. He flys to competitions and mostly wins or at least places every time. Very intelligent, with a wonderful personality. There's probably more I could add but you get it. PFO... WTF????

Ya I know this guy too, and when I heard he got PFOed, I didn't feel as bad about my PFO (early 2011)! Now I watch as all my former FOs get the call lol. Good luck to all who apply, hopefully the ship stabilizes in the coming months/years.

EC

WestCoastPilot · Post by **WestCoastPilot** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:21 pm

I also interviewed at AC within the last few months and got PFO'd.

Like the originator of this thread, I left the building feeling quite satisfied with my performance. Unfortunately it was not to be, as my PFO arrived via email a few weeks later.

I had solid qualifications (7k+ hours, 3k+ PIC, multiple type ratings, 3k+ on EFIS equipped turboprops or jets, university degree, bilingual). And not that hours, type ratings, and education are the be all & end all of things, but of all the interviewees when I was there, I had the most flight time, the highest level of education, and was one of only two who were biligual. It was just frustrating having worked so hard and so long to accumulate all that, only to be shot down by a vexing process.

Offhand, my biggest frustration was with the interview format. It is not the interaction part - the interviewers were very friendly, welcoming folks who do their best to make you at ease and give a good impression of AC. They were very decent folks - professional, welcoming, and encouraging. Rather, I think it is the format they have to follow (presumably driven by some level of HR) that makes things challenging. They'll ask a question - then as you give you answer, they frantically transcribe it while listening. Often, I'd finish my answer and they would still be writing down my answer for another 45 seconds...which would lead to an interesting period of silence. I almost wonder if the people who interviewed me - an HR professional and a retired widebody Captain - felt the same way....as they are the kind of people who are used to processing information and making decisions about things, instead of being reduced to transcriptionist role.

Presumably these answers will be read and reviewed by all members of the interview board, whenever the aforementioned group meets. It just felt kind of odd....it reminded me a bit of university when you are desperately trying to scribble down lecture notes and are a bit behind the professor, instead of listening to the message and let it sink in. With technology today, I think what the interviewers were trying to accomplish could easily be done by a decent video camera/recorder and then replayed for the interview board as required. I truly believe the interviewers should have had some sort of scoresheet to rate my answers and then come up with some sort of total for me (versus transcribing almost verbatim what I said).

Although it was frustrating to not get the job, who knows where I tripped up. Maybe my answers were bogus. Maybe my body language was giving bad vibes. Maybe I botched the various personality tests.
Maybe I am a douchbag? Or maybe I had a bad day an an inopportune time.

As frustrating as it was, you have to have confidence in the process. A lot of better people than me did not get the job. AC can't release the reason why you were shot down, as that would open them up to a can of lawsuits. Plus, knowing how aggressive pilots can be, can you imagine how HR would get swamped, with everybody calling up wanting to know how to fix their flaws for "the next interview."

My PFO time in the penalty box is almost up. One of these days I'll create a new profile on the website and try again.

Good luck to all applicants.

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