Flying to Cuba

[ghazanhaider]

Posting this here because I'm a private pilot, even though the Corporate guys might have a better answer.

What do you need to do to be able to fly to Cuba through Florida as a Canadian?

Here's what I know already:

- Landing permit must be obtained and there's no easy source. There's no 'Cuban CAA' website to go to and get the permit. 3rd party handlers like Caribbean Sky tours told me they're a US company so they cannot provide me with a landing permit, only an overflight permit. I'm awaiting word back from World Air Ops. Also called the Cuban travel reps in Toronto and they gave me a Cubana Toronto number to call as they do it directly, could not reach anyone.

- You pass through the ADIZ of two different countries, meaning two different defence VFR flight plans. However with a DVFR you have to stay in touch with the ATC, and in the case of USA and Cuba they do not exchange flight plans. Do I call Havana ctr from Florida and open the flight plan, and quickly call them from the air as soon as I'm allowed while still in the US ADIZ? I do not want to be shot down by an AN-2, even if I can outrun it in my AA1



Do they have AOEs there? Is Varadero an AOE?

Do they have additional paperwork requirements? I have my limited radio op license, but apparently theres a separate radio license that goes with the airplane. How do I get that from Transport Canada?

Does the ATC there speak English?

Will I need a 'cruising permit' to go around Cuba afterwards? Part B: IS GA flying in Cuba CVFR/DVFR/IFR or can it just be free VFR?

Are there special procedures going from Cuba to USA that are different from Canada to USA or Bahamas to USA?

I'd love to hear from someone who has actually done this preferably as a private, but I'm sure the corporate guys would know more...

[cdnpilot77]

I was in to Camaguey Cuba a few weeks ago. Customs was a bit of a $hit$how but possibly that was because we were doing a same day dispatch. You must have landing permits and customs set before setting off, but even then, landing in Camaguey as a corporate flight, we had 12-15 people "greet" our airplane and once we got off the airplane, guards stood in front of the door restricting our access until customs was completed. Get a local handler in Cuba to help you. Our guy came out holding a 1990's 'womens world' magazine with our paperwork stuffed inside. He awkwardly jumped through the pages waiting for us to slip him some pesos in-between pages but no doubt he made life much easier for us as he spoke English quite well, unlike most of the others that greeted our arrival.

US based flight planning software (at least ours) wouldn't allow us to plan and file the flight plan. We fueled in Nassau Bahamas as the transition to Cuba was much easier than stopping in the US. Try a Canadian handler that has a large network such as Air Georgian to help you through that process.

ATC does speak English quite well, especially Havana Centre. Keep an eye for procedures such as the requirement to radio the appropriate freq 25-40 mins before your arrival to find what your parking spot will be using at the airport. Also, be acutely aware of the freq you are supposed to be on. It is a communist country and they have had a shoot first answer questions later policy in years past (C337 shot down by a mig). If there is something you don't understand about an instruction or procedure, just ask. They were quite helpful on all ATC freq's inside Cuban airspace and the transition from Miami Centre to Havana Centre was as seamless as Toronto to Cleveland. As Varadero handles large passenger aircraft I would say that it would likely be possible to fly in there in a smaller bird. I have seen smaller private aircraft in Varadero before while on vacation, but I don't remember seeing the reg, so not sure where they were coming from.

Hope that helps a little bit

[amraam]

Contact a Canadian third party provider like Skyplan Services or Colt International. They have connections directly with the Cuban CAA and can get you the landing permit you require. Unless it has been recently changed, VFR flights over Cuba are prohibited and aircraft must be over a minimum altitude. There aren't any restrictions for Canadian registered aircraft arriving from the US into Cuba, however there are severe restrictions by the US officials for arriving back into the US from Cuba.

There are several AOE airports in Cuba, including Varadero.

Best thing to do is to contact one of the companies above to have them help you out and set you up with the landing permit and local handling and fuel.

amraam

[chipmunk]

Another good company to try is Flight Plan Solutions http://www.flightplansolutions.com.

I've used them numerous times for overflight and landing permits, as well as handling arrangements (a handler, as mentioned above, is crucial to making things simple... arranging fuel, flight plan, Gen Decs, customs formalities, fee payment - landing/parking/transit, etc. Worth paying for. They're less expensive than Colt, and Alan, the guy that runs it, is fantastic.

Re: Cuba specifically, I've only done the overflight thing. The "standard" permit is good for 72h and takes a couple of days to arrange, but I have no idea what the constraints of the landing permit would be. (For many countries, you have to get specific airports listed, so you just can't randomly change your plan and go to airport Y instead of airport X.)

You should get your hands on a copy of the Jepp Airways Manual and look up some of the procedural/AIM-type stuff & ICAO differences. (Stuff like - "VFR flights are allowed only in daytime" ...although when I overflew Cuba I originally was going to go VFR out of Key West but they would only accept an IFR flight plan. It'll also tell you airports of entry, FIR crossing/reporting procedures, etc. (Just noticed a question you had regarding flight plans... for IFR flight plans for sure, the US will pass on that flight plan to the folks in the Havana FIR, so you won't need to call back to your departure point to close.)

It's only 162 NM from Nassau to Cayo Coco... good option to avoid the whole US DCT Cuba thing... (never mind that the Bahamas are absolutely stunning!) You'll need to do eAPIS out of the US to Nassau as well as the Carib APIS equivalent.

Aircraft Radio License - yes, you'll need one. Contact Industry Canada (more info at www.ic.gc.ca/spectrum) as TC doesn't deal with this.
AOEs - Camaguey, Cayo Coco, Cayo Largo del Sur, Cienfuegos, Havana, Holguin, Manzanillo, Santa Clara, Santiago de Cuba, Varadero
ATC does speak English fairly well; just be ready to listen closely and use standard by-the-book radio phraseology, no jargon or chatty stuff.
Your proof of insurance that "guarantees to cover the cost for damages caused to persons or property of others in the area" (the insurance certificate will get submitted ahead of time with your permit application - some countries want the insurance certificate to say that you'll actually be covered in that country, again, not sure if Cuba requires that.)

Also, you may have luck checking out the Latin America section of PPRUNE.. a few guys have posted in there that have done loads of G.A. flying around the Caribbean.

[Colonel Sanders]

VFR flights over Cuba are prohibited

Ah, so that's why Havana Center always gives me
IFR clearances when I'm puttering along VFR across
the Gulf



The other way is to not talk to Havana (for overflight)

You can clip the outer ADIZ but I would not advise
clipping the inner ADIZ. You hear this funny buzzing on
the comm which my father opines is surface-to-air
radar.

[chipmunk]

You can clip the outer ADIZ but I would not advise
clipping the inner ADIZ. You hear this funny buzzing on
the comm which my father opines is surface-to-air
radar.

I flew right over the middle Cuba about 4 weeks ago at FL100 and the radios were surprisingly clear... maybe they've cleaned up the "noise"

[amraam]

Chipmunk,

The information you have regarding the validity for Cuba permits is incorrect.

IIRC, the minimum flight level for IFR flights over the country is FL070.

amraam

[Colonel Sanders]

Last time I talked to Havana, I was VFR at 9500 and
they told me I had to be at 9 or 11. I took 9. Shoulda
taken 11.

[chipmunk]

Chipmunk,

The information you have regarding the validity for Cuba permits is incorrect.

4 weeks ago I had a Cuba overflight permit in hand that was valid for a 72 hour window.

If I implied I could fly around over top of Cuba for 3 days, that was not my intention... is that where the confusion is?

[Machdiamond]

It is a communist country and they have had a shoot first answer questions later policy in years past (C337 shot down by a mig).

That is not a fair statement. The C337 you mention was flown by exiled Cubans from South Florida and was actively engaged in dropping anti-Castro leaflets during preceding flights.

Cubans are normal people like us. Considering the political system they have to deal with they are actually quite remarkable.

--M

[captcrunch2013]

So far no one has answered the question as to what happens
when a Canadian aircraft returns to the USA after visiting Cuba.

I recall doing some research on such a project 18 years ago
and it appeared to be that any aircraft insurance policy owned
by a US based company would not cover anything in Cuba.

That can't be correct now as Canadian airlines go there all the time
and or have some special concession from Cuba.

I've only seen a Venezuelan King Air 200 and I'm told
that there is a US registered corporate jet whose company
owns property in the Cuba and they fly to their holiday airstrip.

Perhaps someone can provide that story.

I'll back up one version and that airport security is very tight
and they have minders for the minders of the minders,
all are watching for someone actually getting on board etc.

[ghazanhaider]

Thanks for the direction and opinions everyone..

Chipmunk: I called industry canada and am filling out their form. However the handler company flightplansolutions could not be reached. Their phone number is from California. Can they still help with landing permits or is it just overflight? The last two handlers I tried were american companies who could not help with landing there.

Is there also a better number you use? It seems like I have tough luck trying to reach any handler at all.

A last question to throw in is, do you guys know for which countries do we need the radio station license? I understand Cuba needs it and US/Canada do not. How about the Bahamas, Mexico, Jamaica, Dominican etc?

[chipmunk]

Thanks for the direction and opinions everyone..

Chipmunk: I called industry canada and am filling out their form. However the handler company flightplansolutions could not be reached. Their phone number is from California. Can they still help with landing permits or is it just overflight? The last two handlers I tried were american companies who could not help with landing there.

Is there also a better number you use? It seems like I have tough luck trying to reach any handler at all.

A last question to throw in is, do you guys know for which countries do we need the radio station license? I understand Cuba needs it and US/Canada do not. How about the Bahamas, Mexico, Jamaica, Dominican etc?

Sending you a PM re: FPS.

Re: Radio License - having one on board is ICAO standard. There is an exemption for Canadian airplanes in Canadian airspace and the FCC in the US have made an exemption for American airplanes. There is no official agreement between our two countries, so technically, you could be ramp-checked by the FAA in the US and they can ask to see your radio license but they don't enforce FCC rules so... but everywhere else you'll need one.

[amraam]

Canadian aircraft with Canadian crew and passengers can fly directly into the US provided they land at specific airports specified by the US CBP. Many Canadian operators wanting to land in the US after a flight into Cuba will stop in the Bahamas prior to arriving into the US. This prevents them from having to land at one of the specified airports and avoids any unnecessary hassles from the US officials.

amraam

[cgartly]

I found the following information from the FAA in regards to flying to Cuba.

Private Flights

Private Flights overflying or landing in Cuba require 48 hours before the proposed date of arrival.
The flight plan for private aircraft must be received by the aeronautics authorities not less than one hour before entering Cuba FIR. For approval contact:

07-November-2013 / CU Page 8 of 11

Instituto de Aeronautica Civil de Cuba Department of Permissions and Flight Planning Apartado Postal 6215
Plaza de la Revolucion
La Habana, Cuba
Cuba
Tel: 53-7-838-1126
Fax: 53-7-834-4579
Email: ppv@iacc.avianet.cu

Have you tried contacting the above?

This is a trip I would love to take some day as well.

[cgartly]

Here is a link from the Cuban CAA

http://www.iacc.gob.cu/Documentos/infor ... A03_13.pdf

Would seem like Roberto Brown Drake could point you in the right direction.