Where Gillie Now?

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tincanflyer
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Where Gillie Now?

Post by tincanflyer »

Now that we are taking American jobs-
http://www.buffalonews.com/business/can ... s-20140807
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KAG
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by KAG »

How is that legal?
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tincanflyer
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by tincanflyer »

Exactly............Canadians taking American jobs................just like Europeans coming and taking Canadian jobs that ol' Gillie cries about......................add this to your hit list!
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leftoftrack
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by leftoftrack »

Gilles cares about protecting Canadian jobs, not American jobs, Not European jobs. The Airlines in the US have a significant lobby that will do for American jobs what Gilles and everyone else who he has worked with have done for Canadian Airline jobs.
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ahramin
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by ahramin »

Isn't Sunwing already doing that from other US cities? I seem to remember Nashville?
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CD
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by CD »

The article lists the other cities ... as well as noting that Transat used to operate from that airport too. Perhaps there is something unique about charter operators that permits this when scheduled operators cannot.
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Rogerdodger2
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by Rogerdodger2 »

SW owns a US travel company. It's simply doing its own work. Just incase someone mentions the Fifth Freedom, it's not actually law.
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leftoftrack
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by leftoftrack »

Are they Canadian registered plane's doing those flights or does sunwing own a us airline?
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Legacy
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by Legacy »

I thought we were allowed to go from a point in Canada to US to a point outside the US. just not allowed to go to another point in the US
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arctic ocean
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by arctic ocean »

All part of the Open Skies agreement. Canadian airlines can fly out of the US to international destinations. US carriers receive reciprocal rights up here. Carriers simply file with the CTA (for an American carrier) or DOT (for a Canadian carrier)and its pretty much a lock. The only way an application would be denied is if one of the countries stopped reciprocating. Really benefits Canadian carriers more as there's more work done out of the US. Don't get this one confused with the hockey teams - different deal.
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Gino Under
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by Gino Under »

tincanflyer

How does a Canadian carrier, employing Canadian pilots operating out of Buffalo get viewed by you and others as taking jobs away from Americans? Are you joking???
Doesn't Westjet lease an American B757 operator to operate some of their flights?
To water it down for some who don't seem to get it... Canadians hired by an AMERICAN carrier could be deemed as Canadians taking jobs away from Americans but it's a real stretch to suggest Canadians working for a Canadian carrier are taking jobs away from American pilots.

DUH! Figure it out.

Does that mean British Airways pilots operating out of Pearson are taking pilot jobs away from Canadian pilots?

You must be joking.

Gino Under :partyman:
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ea306
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by ea306 »

Perhaps he was Gino.
But I do like your analogy.
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tincanflyer
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by tincanflyer »

Gino Under wrote:tincanflyer

How does a Canadian carrier, employing Canadian pilots operating out of Buffalo get viewed by you and others as taking jobs away from Americans? Are you joking???
Doesn't Westjet lease an American B757 operator to operate some of their flights?
To water it down for some who don't seem to get it... Canadians hired by an AMERICAN carrier could be deemed as Canadians taking jobs away from Americans but it's a real stretch to suggest Canadians working for a Canadian carrier are taking jobs away from American pilots.

DUH! Figure it out.

Does that mean British Airways pilots operating out of Pearson are taking pilot jobs away from Canadian pilots?

You must be joking.

Gino Under :partyman:
Nope, no joke.

I don't think you are getting it.

These fllights are operated FROM Buffalo, not TOO or THRU.

Compare apples to apples.......would you be mad or would Gillies be made if British Airways operated Toronto to Punta Cana year round??
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Rogerdodger2
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by Rogerdodger2 »

Obviously it's leagal or it wouldn't happen. What, do you think you've uncovered some big conspiracy here on AvCanada that TC and the FAA don't know about?!? Come on people, think!
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NotDirty!
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by NotDirty! »

tincanflyer wrote:
Compare apples to apples.......would you be mad or would Gillies be made if British Airways operated Toronto to Punta Cana year round??
To compare apples to apples you would need BA to operate YTS-PUC or something like that. If it was JFK, ORD, LAX, ATL, etc. then YYZ is a reasonable comparison. BUF is NOT a major hub!
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OPEC6-Heavy
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by OPEC6-Heavy »

It's called "Open Skies", look it up. Delta can fly Toronto-Paris if they want, but why would they. And of course only on Av Canada would commentary go from crying Canadian jobs with TFW's at Sunwing to "what the hell are Canadians doing flying planes out of the USA" ?? Why are they creating more Canadian jobs by doing this?? Clowns. Make up your mind. I'm sure Gilles will find something wrong with it.
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timel
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by timel »

OPEC6-Heavy wrote:It's called "Open Skies", look it up. Delta can fly Toronto-Paris if they want, but why would they. And of course only on Av Canada would commentary go from crying Canadian jobs with TFW's at Sunwing to "what the hell are Canadians doing flying planes out of the USA" ?? Why are they creating more Canadian jobs by doing this?? Clowns. Make up your mind. I'm sure Gilles will find something wrong with it.
Don't be naive... "Open skies" ... If US airlines could come in as they wished in Canada, take some pax and leave the country, there would be no more Canadian airlines left alive.I suggest you show me where it is written .. And that you read it a little further.. like the part they speak of fair competition in the agreement.

By the way do you guys ever answer to questions asked? Huh... No lawyers figured it out for us so it must be right. Personally the last persons on earth I trust are lawyers.

But please continue bashing on people asking for fair questions.
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Last edited by timel on Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tincanflyer
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by tincanflyer »

OPEC6-Heavy wrote:It's called "Open Skies", look it up. Delta can fly Toronto-Paris if they want, but why would they. And of course only on Av Canada would commentary go from crying Canadian jobs with TFW's at Sunwing to "what the hell are Canadians doing flying planes out of the USA" ?? Why are they creating more Canadian jobs by doing this?? Clowns. Make up your mind. I'm sure Gilles will find something wrong with it.
uuuummmm, I think you need to look it up. Delta could not do that, nor could they come up here and run YYZ-YYC.
They could bring passengers up to Canada from the USA back to the USA.

Before throwing it in ones face, perhaps know the facts bud.
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Rogerdodger2
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by Rogerdodger2 »

I love how people like Timel and Tincan slam OPEC without any knowledge on the subject. Tincan is correct that US carriers cannot do point to point within Canada and that's of course the same Canadian carriers in the US. They can however do what SW is doing and fly pax to a third party country, the fifth and sixth freedom rights.

Quote,

Policy Approach for Air Transportation Negotiations
Canada will proactively pursue opportunities to negotiate more liberalized agreements for international scheduled air transportation that will provide maximum opportunity for passenger and all-cargo services to be added according to market forces.

As a primary objective, Canada will seek to negotiate reciprocal “Open Skies”-type agreements, similar to the one negotiated with the U.S. in November 2005, where it is deemed to be in Canada’s overall interest.

In essence, an “Open Skies”-type agreement would cover the following elements for scheduled passenger and all-cargo services:

Open bilateral markets/access (third and fourth freedom rights);
No limit on the number of airlines permitted to operate;
No limits on the permitted frequency of service or aircraft type;
Market-based tariff/pricing regime for bilateral and third-country services;
Open and flexible regime for the operation of code-sharing services;
Unrestricted services to and from third-countries (fifth and sixth freedom rights); and
Rights for stand-alone all-cargo operations (seventh freedom rights).
Under no circumstances will the policy approach include cabotage rights – the right for a foreign airline to carry domestic traffic between points in Canada.
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timel
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by timel »

From what I understood OPEC suggested that USA and Canada were under the seventh freedom of the air for PAX transportations.

There is a huge difference between 5-6th agreements and the 7th.

5th agreement must also include 3 nations. Even if Canada agrees to 5th, does not mean all of the other nations will agree.
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OPEC6-Heavy
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by OPEC6-Heavy »

I know the rules very well thank you... Rogerdodger2 has explained it for me so I don't need to tell you now, Cheers. Point to point is obvious, my Delta example still stands correct.
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bmc
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by bmc »

Freedoms of the air if anyone is interested.

http://www.aviationlaw.eu/wp/wp-content ... lained.pdf
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bmc
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by rudder »

This is just more work under the Vacation Express banner in the US.

The lift is subcontracted (wet lease). Sometimes it is SW, sometimes it is other non-US carriers (Bahamian, Mexican) when an aircraft less than 189 seats is required.

This is nothing new. The only thing new is that it is out of BUF instead of CVG or ATL.
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tincanflyer
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by tincanflyer »

So they Mexicans and Bahamians should be MAAADDD we are stealing their jooobbbsss, eh Gillies!!! Buddy boy! Wait, its Open Skies!!!
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rudder
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Re: Where Gillie Now?

Post by rudder »

tincanflyer wrote:So they Mexicans and Bahamians should be MAAADDD we are stealing their jooobbbsss, eh Gillies!!! Buddy boy! Wait, its Open Skies!!!
There is no Open Skies in the US. Never will be.

However, there are wet lease provisions and Freedom of the Air Treaty arrangements. All subject to change.

Welcome to America.
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