Transat or Porter?
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Transat or Porter?
Edited
Last edited by Upgradeable on Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Transat or Porter?
Looks like you have your priorities straight. Good job.
I think both companies are good. Here's the only thing that worries me: what will happen in 20 years, let alone 37? Will both still be around? Are you willing to start over if something doesn't work out?
I think both companies are good. Here's the only thing that worries me: what will happen in 20 years, let alone 37? Will both still be around? Are you willing to start over if something doesn't work out?
Re: Transat or Porter?
Bede is right, both good airlines, but there is only one sure bet for 20 years down the road, and like it or not that is the big red maple leaf.
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Re: Transat or Porter?
For schedule and lifestyle, Transat. Everything else Porter.Upgradeable wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:20 pm Hello Aviators,
You have 37 years left in your career.
You want:
1. A great quality of life above all else.
2. To be home enough to start a family and be there for your wife and kids.
3. To be based in Toronto for the remainder of your career.
You don't care about:
1. What equipment you fly.
2. Chasing the big bank account.
3. Where you travel or layover.
You meet the reqs for both Transat and Porter (E2). Where do you go?
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Re: Transat or Porter?
What's "everything" ? Pay? Plane? Commuting?Stable_Approach wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 11:15 amFor schedule and lifestyle, Transat. Everything else Porter.Upgradeable wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:20 pm Hello Aviators,
You have 37 years left in your career.
You want:
1. A great quality of life above all else.
2. To be home enough to start a family and be there for your wife and kids.
3. To be based in Toronto for the remainder of your career.
You don't care about:
1. What equipment you fly.
2. Chasing the big bank account.
3. Where you travel or layover.
You meet the reqs for both Transat and Porter (E2). Where do you go?
Re: Transat or Porter?
Air Canada and stay as an FO on a junior machine, don’t chase the upgrade is the answer to your question not AT or Porter.
Re: Transat or Porter?
I'd be genuinely curious to compare schedules of 10y FO's at TS and 37/320 at AC. Pay is essentially the same. TS is slightly higher on paper but less take-home. My first thought would be that Transat would still yield better with inherently longer legs and less working days, but I don't know enough about senior NB FO skeds at AC.
Plenty could change as well once AC starts incorporating the coming 321XLRs for long range flying... wonder how that type will go with seniority? Would it be blended with the existing 320 roster with just a wider spread of pairings?
Plenty could change as well once AC starts incorporating the coming 321XLRs for long range flying... wonder how that type will go with seniority? Would it be blended with the existing 320 roster with just a wider spread of pairings?
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Re: Transat or Porter?
Pay (this could change with next contract) especially for FO is better at Porter.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:18 amWhat's "everything" ? Pay? Plane? Commuting?Stable_Approach wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 11:15 amFor schedule and lifestyle, Transat. Everything else Porter.Upgradeable wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:20 pm Hello Aviators,
You have 37 years left in your career.
You want:
1. A great quality of life above all else.
2. To be home enough to start a family and be there for your wife and kids.
3. To be based in Toronto for the remainder of your career.
You don't care about:
1. What equipment you fly.
2. Chasing the big bank account.
3. Where you travel or layover.
You meet the reqs for both Transat and Porter (E2). Where do you go?
Plane if you are chasing heavy or valuable type rating, Transat. Not a fan of the Embraer and type rating useless if you have to go overseas.
Commuting would be the same. If you are doing 5-6 day trips at Porter you can live pretty much anywhere same goes for Transat.
Upgrades for now faster at Porter thought that can change.
Destinations and work schedule better at Transat as you can get day turns if you want which will probably not be possible at Porter for the foreseeable future.
Re: Transat or Porter?
I don't believe Porter pays more than Air Transat at any year. Took a quick look at that payscale comparison that's floating around and it varies from 5k-70k less.
Re: Transat or Porter?
I think the pay scale comparison must be based on the old Porter pay, I looked at PCC website and unless those are old Transat pay scales, it appears Porter pays more by quite a bit for FO and the Captain scale is more or less the same.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=195682
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Re: Transat or Porter?
PORTER AIR TRANSAT
Annual Salary Annual Salary Variance
Year 1 76,500 64,512 11,988
Year 2 90,000 76,742 13,258
Year 3 103,500 91,181 12,319
Year 4 112,500 99,226 13,274
Year 5 121,500 118,502 2,998
Year 6 126,000 124,598 1,402
Year 7 130,500 130,704 -204
Year 8 132,300 136,800 -4,500
Year 9 134,100 142,896 -8,796
Year 10 136,800 149,002 -12,202
Year 11 136,800 155,098 -18,298
Year 12 136,800 155,098 -18,298
FO pay at Porter higher until year 7.
Captain pay higher at Transat but not by much and that can change as there is no collective agreement locking the salaries in.
Re: Transat or Porter?
Porter. From another forum
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Re: Transat or Porter?
No, you are basing that on the MMG, which is when times are bad, no single airline is paying the MMG, except for reserve pilots.Stable_Approach wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:57 amPORTER AIR TRANSAT
Annual Salary Annual Salary Variance
Year 1 76,500 64,512 11,988
Year 2 90,000 76,742 13,258
Year 3 103,500 91,181 12,319
Year 4 112,500 99,226 13,274
Year 5 121,500 118,502 2,998
Year 6 126,000 124,598 1,402
Year 7 130,500 130,704 -204
Year 8 132,300 136,800 -4,500
Year 9 134,100 142,896 -8,796
Year 10 136,800 149,002 -12,202
Year 11 136,800 155,098 -18,298
Year 12 136,800 155,098 -18,298
FO pay at Porter higher until year 7.
Captain pay higher at Transat but not by much and that can change as there is no collective agreement locking the salaries in.
Jazz has been 85 or higher for the last year or so, the only true comparison is the actual hourly rate, that is apples to apples in which case Porter pays higher for every step of FO and basically matches within a couple bucks until year 9 then pulls ahead a bit.
Re: Transat or Porter?
Well the Air Transat #s are accurate, but the Porter ones are much higher than the chart I was looking at. Are they accurate?
AC and AT seriously need to get their shit together when they've got wide body pilots making less than domestic NB.
AC and AT seriously need to get their shit together when they've got wide body pilots making less than domestic NB.
Re: Transat or Porter?
The Porter numbers are the most current since our second benchmark last summer.
In addition, as soon as AC gets their raise this year the Porter numbers will be benchmarked against it, so expect it to increase.
In addition, as soon as AC gets their raise this year the Porter numbers will be benchmarked against it, so expect it to increase.
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Re: Transat or Porter?
Can confirm the scale listed above in the picture is the current one. A rising tide floats all boats, watch it go higher again in the future.
Re: Transat or Porter?
Well sthis thread has drifted, the original poster asked for information on several factors other than money and the thread has turned solely into a conversation about money.Upgradeable wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:20 pm Hello Aviators,
You have 37 years left in your career.
You want:
1. A great quality of life above all else.
2. To be home enough to start a family and be there for your wife and kids.
3. To be based in Toronto for the remainder of your career.
You don't care about:
1. What equipment you fly.
2. Chasing the big bank account.
3. Where you travel or layover.
You meet the reqs for both Transat and Porter (E2). Where do you go?
I’d say for 1 and 2 of your wants, Transat 100%.
I joined Porter as a DEC on the e2, frankly it has been the biggest mistake of my aviation career. The pairings are terribly inefficient and you will most likely be flying around 18 days a month. With this lack of pairing efficiency you could very well have pairings that starts early and end late also cutting into your time off. I personally feel like I am very rarely home and my personal life has taken a hit. I feel as though I rarely spend quality time with the wife/kids and rarely see friends anymore. I am so busy trying to catch up on household chores and errands on the days I do have off there is little time for anything else. For someone like yourself looking to start a family I would imagine it would be extremely difficult.
With all that said it is possible Porter is dealing with growing pains. I’m hopeful things will improve and these are just growing pains. However, the longer I am here the more I believe this is a National airline that by choice stuck with a regional airline mentality.
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Re: Transat or Porter?
They are definitely dealing with growing pains. Once things settle down I know it will improve. The problem is that it may take a couple years before things settle down.
I joined as a DEC on the E2 as well and it's been the best decision of my career. I'm busy yes, but I love it. I have a wife and two kids and I get to spend quite a bit of time with them. More would be better sure.
It sucks that you're not happy and I don't blame you. You're definitely not alone. Porter does need to get their act together and even with the growing pains there are definitely ways they can make things better immediately. Like what the @#$! is Airport Standby? Do any other self-respecting airlines have APS?
There's definitely some truth to this. They need a major shift in their mentality. "That's just the Porter way" isn't going to cut it for much longer.
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Re: Transat or Porter?
37 years? So I think that makes you 28.
WIth your criteria, I think you should more be asking WestJet or Air Canada.
WJ, once off reserve, socialized bidding, can work way less days, make more money than Transat, as much as they are "not in Toronto' I suspect they will be back sometime, definitely less than 37 years.
Air Canada will be here for a long time too. You always have people wanting to go there so you will have a great career there too. Lots of variety for equipment and flying.
You're also 28, who cares. Go somewhere, whether it be Transat, Porter, Lynx, WJ, Etihad. Enjoy it, don't enjoy it, quit, try something else, come back to aviation, the possibilities are endless, most people dont have everything figured out by 28, 32, 42, 55. Its a journey, embrace it, no mistakes just lessons.
WIth your criteria, I think you should more be asking WestJet or Air Canada.
WJ, once off reserve, socialized bidding, can work way less days, make more money than Transat, as much as they are "not in Toronto' I suspect they will be back sometime, definitely less than 37 years.
Air Canada will be here for a long time too. You always have people wanting to go there so you will have a great career there too. Lots of variety for equipment and flying.
You're also 28, who cares. Go somewhere, whether it be Transat, Porter, Lynx, WJ, Etihad. Enjoy it, don't enjoy it, quit, try something else, come back to aviation, the possibilities are endless, most people dont have everything figured out by 28, 32, 42, 55. Its a journey, embrace it, no mistakes just lessons.
Re: Transat or Porter?
Hey Sorry to hear that, for what it’s worth, I believe this is likely growing pains but you never know, a lot depends on how they build the pairings, by that I mean software or manual. As new destinations are added and frequencies to established destinations are added, the ability to build better pairings increases but the growing pains will continue given your forecasted to keep growing is another year or so.VFS wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:13 amWell sthis thread has drifted, the original poster asked for information on several factors other than money and the thread has turned solely into a conversation about money.Upgradeable wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:20 pm Hello Aviators,
You have 37 years left in your career.
You want:
1. A great quality of life above all else.
2. To be home enough to start a family and be there for your wife and kids.
3. To be based in Toronto for the remainder of your career.
You don't care about:
1. What equipment you fly.
2. Chasing the big bank account.
3. Where you travel or layover.
You meet the reqs for both Transat and Porter (E2). Where do you go?
I’d say for 1 and 2 of your wants, Transat 100%.
I joined Porter as a DEC on the e2, frankly it has been the biggest mistake of my aviation career. The pairings are terribly inefficient and you will most likely be flying around 18 days a month. With this lack of pairing efficiency you could very well have pairings that starts early and end late also cutting into your time off. I personally feel like I am very rarely home and my personal life has taken a hit. I feel as though I rarely spend quality time with the wife/kids and rarely see friends anymore. I am so busy trying to catch up on household chores and errands on the days I do have off there is little time for anything else. For someone like yourself looking to start a family I would imagine it would be extremely difficult.
With all that said it is possible Porter is dealing with growing pains. I’m hopeful things will improve and these are just growing pains. However, the longer I am here the more I believe this is a National airline that by choice stuck with a regional airline mentality.
Now, I would love some irony, please tell me you left Jazz for Porter and your biggest aviation mistake was leaving Jazz? Duke will love this one, however I’m doubtful this is the case.
Re: Transat or Porter?
Jazz has Airport reserve for Flight attendants, not for pilots.Chaxterium wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:42 amThey are definitely dealing with growing pains. Once things settle down I know it will improve. The problem is that it may take a couple years before things settle down.
I joined as a DEC on the E2 as well and it's been the best decision of my career. I'm busy yes, but I love it. I have a wife and two kids and I get to spend quite a bit of time with them. More would be better sure.
It sucks that you're not happy and I don't blame you. You're definitely not alone. Porter does need to get their act together and even with the growing pains there are definitely ways they can make things better immediately. Like what the @#$! is Airport Standby? Do any other self-respecting airlines have APS?
There's definitely some truth to this. They need a major shift in their mentality. "That's just the Porter way" isn't going to cut it for much longer.
Good thing I’m not at Porter, I’d be walking around with ALPA cards for everyone to sign,lol. Probably would have waited until I was off probation though, just kidding, the lord hates a coward!
Re: Transat or Porter?
If you want lifestyle and money (Long term weighted), Transat definitely blocks you less working days overall. Current contract is falling behind but will be regenotiated next year. If you want 14-15 working days of layovers all over Europe you can do it, or if you want 9-12 days of turns down south you can do that too, and you only have to wait a few years to start getting almost all of what you want.
YYZ base will see your seniority climb faster than YUL as well.
The only downside of TS is the perceived job security, but I strongly doubt they're going anywhere anytime soon. They just need a few more years of the current growth and stability to be able to weather the next detrimental event, whatever it may be. Also the DHs and time zone fatigue can get to you during busy time in the summer, but after a few years you can hold vaca in July/Aug to break it up.
Disclaimer- I've never worked for Porter, It's a great company but I know you're definitely up there in working days based on comparing schedules.
YYZ base will see your seniority climb faster than YUL as well.
The only downside of TS is the perceived job security, but I strongly doubt they're going anywhere anytime soon. They just need a few more years of the current growth and stability to be able to weather the next detrimental event, whatever it may be. Also the DHs and time zone fatigue can get to you during busy time in the summer, but after a few years you can hold vaca in July/Aug to break it up.
Disclaimer- I've never worked for Porter, It's a great company but I know you're definitely up there in working days based on comparing schedules.
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Re: Transat or Porter?
In that case wish you were here. Trade you for Duke (or any of the other anti-alpa Jazz transplants)?
/s glad you guys are all here just wish we could
come together and pull in a unified direction.
Re: Transat or Porter?
No I did not work at Jazz.cdnavater wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:09 pmHey Sorry to hear that, for what it’s worth, I believe this is likely growing pains but you never know, a lot depends on how they build the pairings, by that I mean software or manual. As new destinations are added and frequencies to established destinations are added, the ability to build better pairings increases but the growing pains will continue given your forecasted to keep growing is another year or so.VFS wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:13 amWell sthis thread has drifted, the original poster asked for information on several factors other than money and the thread has turned solely into a conversation about money.Upgradeable wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:20 pm Hello Aviators,
You have 37 years left in your career.
You want:
1. A great quality of life above all else.
2. To be home enough to start a family and be there for your wife and kids.
3. To be based in Toronto for the remainder of your career.
You don't care about:
1. What equipment you fly.
2. Chasing the big bank account.
3. Where you travel or layover.
You meet the reqs for both Transat and Porter (E2). Where do you go?
I’d say for 1 and 2 of your wants, Transat 100%.
I joined Porter as a DEC on the e2, frankly it has been the biggest mistake of my aviation career. The pairings are terribly inefficient and you will most likely be flying around 18 days a month. With this lack of pairing efficiency you could very well have pairings that starts early and end late also cutting into your time off. I personally feel like I am very rarely home and my personal life has taken a hit. I feel as though I rarely spend quality time with the wife/kids and rarely see friends anymore. I am so busy trying to catch up on household chores and errands on the days I do have off there is little time for anything else. For someone like yourself looking to start a family I would imagine it would be extremely difficult.
With all that said it is possible Porter is dealing with growing pains. I’m hopeful things will improve and these are just growing pains. However, the longer I am here the more I believe this is a National airline that by choice stuck with a regional airline mentality.
Now, I would love some irony, please tell me you left Jazz for Porter and your biggest aviation mistake was leaving Jazz? Duke will love this one, however I’m doubtful this is the case.
Re: Transat or Porter?
I'll second what DanWEC said, but add:
1. A great quality of life above all else. I would say yes, the destinations are much better
2. To be home enough to start a family and be there for your wife and kids. Most of us here have families or starting one, not an issue.
3. To be based in Toronto for the remainder of your career. Junior base so that will happen
I would say you can't go wrong for either, both are career companies, and both have things to improve on. TS you have the backing of a union, and we will see our contract renegotiated next year to take advantage of what Westjet has set, and soon AC. Porter you can get gains anytime management feels fit. Good luck with your decision.
You want:
1. A great quality of life above all else. I would say yes, the destinations are much better
2. To be home enough to start a family and be there for your wife and kids. Most of us here have families or starting one, not an issue.
3. To be based in Toronto for the remainder of your career. Junior base so that will happen
I've said before Porter is a good company, growing pains at the moment, but it's a good chance to get in, as they'll be doubling their fleet, so there's great opportunity there. At Transat, the destinations are better, and the Airbus is great to fly, and great crews to fly with, it seems most are happy here. There's plans for more fleet growth in the future.
I would say you can't go wrong for either, both are career companies, and both have things to improve on. TS you have the backing of a union, and we will see our contract renegotiated next year to take advantage of what Westjet has set, and soon AC. Porter you can get gains anytime management feels fit. Good luck with your decision.